gehenna garbage dump
Also, to pin this on one word is a common folly. 1:7 where it says Jesus will be revealed from heaven in "blazing fire" and those who do not know God will be eternally destroyed by the fire of his presence, like how Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by eternal fire (p.s. "I doubt I will convince you of anything and I don't have time to continue a running debate, but every time I go through this process, I learn something so it has been worth it.". The people in the surrounding areas dumped their trash in Gehenna, where it burned day and night. Why would anyone, especially people who are redeemed and survive the coming of the Lord to judge all flesh (v.16) want to go out to look at corpses full of worms and burning? Punishment of this type is eternal. God is much more forgiving than that. He is the creator that loves his creation so much that he gave his only Son who was the only sacrifice Holy enough for the sins of mankind who defeated death that we may have the hope of everlasting life! Because the Hinnom and Kidron Valleys are located on the southeast side of Jerusalem, the prevailing winds carry the winds away from the city. Still, because it seems like a reasonable explanation for the origin of the Hinnom Valley as "hell," commentators and preachers have accepted it. It says it is "not quenched". The word Gehenna was the Greek transliteration of g-ben-hinnom (the valley of the sons of Hinnom), an actual geographical site in Jerusalem named after a real person. "The three parables you mention also do not say how long the consequences for failure last or whether there is anything else to take place afterward.". Out of six major "seminaries" ". The Gray Waste (more fully, the Gray Wastes of Hades; also, Hades, The Three Glooms, Hope's Loss or The Nadir) is a strongly neutral evil aligned plane of existence. The parables all imply that the judgement is final, because "the door was locked" it is an unfounded assumption on your part that it would be opened again. Blot them out of existence? The "kingdom" of the Son will one day be turned over to the Father, and one of the epistles describes Jesus ruling it UNTIL all His enemies are put under His feet, so the parables about the kingdom and the wedding feast do not have to be describing the final state of "the Kingdom". Calling God "The God of the ages" (aions) is stating a fact, God is God over the ages. So your attitude "If the Lord had wanted to communicate this" is not only arrogant towards him (he chose his words as he saw fit, not you) but also false: he did clearly communicate this. Jerome also used the phrase "en aeturnum et ultra" ("in eternity and beyond") in his commantary on Collosians. This passage appears to me about the situation immediately after God's victory, so it is surely not placed during a time when the New Jerusalem has already been established for a long time. Does no one know about the millennium, a period of teaching, after which satan is loosed for a season to test those that followed him in the first earth age. After the Jews returned from the Babylonian exile, the valley became a garbage dump where anything considered unclean was placed. Gehenna, or the valley of Hinnom, is an actual valley in the city of Jerusalem. If this is supposed to be a literal story about the suffering of an eternal "hell", there would be no need to explain the gulf as being necessary to prevent people from going from Abraham's bosom to the other side where there is torment. A Christian in error is still a Christian. There is a lot of other stuff about fallen spirits changing form, etc., that makes it understandable how he would get into trouble. The chastisement is in reference to the Second Death, which can't be eternal if we are to take any of the passages about death itself being destroyed literally. Thank you. And can we actualle be cartain about the identity of Sodom and her daughters? Are there going to be new moons and sabbaths in eternity? and rules called canons. The Gehenna Valley was thus a place of burning sewage, burning flesh, and garbage. The valley was the scene of human sacrifices, burned in the worship of Moloch (2 Kings 16:3 and 21:6), which accounts for the prophecy of Jeremiah that it would be called the Valley of Slaughter under judgment of God (Jer. Centuries later Gehenna had become the garbage dump of Jerusalem. All the while, under the surface, the fire still burned, devouring the putrid garbage days and weeks past. No council ever decreed whether someone was a "Christian". Marcellus was important at Nicea (325) and still condemned a heretic later, with even one line in the Creed directed against him. Yesterday Louis McBride raised the issue (HT: BibleX). 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna - garbage dump) fire.29) And if thy right eye . 20The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased,grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Gehenna is the Jewish version of the "punishing afterlife" and the word refers to a valley just to the west side of the city of Jerusalem. Thanks for posting. goes as far as saying the devil would one day be repentant and saved.". I doubt I will convince you of anything and I don't have time to continue a running debate, but every time I go through this process, I learn something so it has been worth it. Neovia group's primary competitors include Hi-Pro Feeds, NUTRI Feeds, Purina Animal Nutrition LLC and 8 more. Romans 11: "mercy to all" doesn't mean all accept it. But note that Sodom has not returned to its former state, so I doubt your literalist reading is correct. Regarding individuals, councils excommunicated those that refused to accept a definition reached (or for crimes i.e. Your quiet deliberations and considerations are refreshing and leave me with hope and joy, is this not the work of the Ekklesia? Second, the whole passage is disproportionate that is the point: that Christ rejects a minimal, just-barely-pass morality but rather sets a very high standard to his followers. Everything is all tied together in one. Maggots and worms crawled through the waste, and the smoke smelled strong and sickening ( Isaiah 30:33 ). Thats it. Out of six major "seminaries" in the early church, four taught universal salvation, one taught annihilation (Ephesus)and one taught eternal punishment (Rome). One is kolasin, the other timoria. [Are you serious? God refers to it as the "valley of slaughter" in Jeremiah 7:31 and in Jeremiah 19:2-6, a place of ruin and disaster.. Will those who survive not be able to believe that they are really safe until they go out and look at the corpses of those who persecuted them and cast them out? You cannot base yourself on the supposed "true" meaning of a word Jesus used while at the same time ignoring that he also spoke of eternal punishment. It is not "people" who ingore context but you who are grasping at straws of literal nitpicking to justify your beliefs in the light of what Christ or others as recorded in Scripture clearly taught. THE LAST ENEMY TO BE DESTROYED IS DEATH! Because the church is not a "club for solving real and apparent biblical contradictions", it is not a "bible study club". Thus already in Old Testament times, the Valley of Hinnom was associated with the destiny of the wicked. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me, says the LORD. Originally it referred to a garbage dump in a deep narrow valley right outside the walls of Jerusalem where fires were kept burning to consume the refuse and keep down the stench. The pictures on this website are copyrighted and may be used only with permission. When the food source dries up, these moths have nowhere to lay their eggs! ELeeMacFall 6 yr. ago This is talking about a place where the worms do not die, (?the flesh is never fully consumed) and the fire is not quenched. Gehenna In Hebrew Scriptures After the Baylonian exile (6 th cent BCE) A garbage dump in a deep narrow valley outside the wall of Jerusalem where fires were kept burning to consume the refuse. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. We are not all doomed as so many believe. Is that decree retroactive? And he talks about those going this way because that is what the rich man asks for, for someone in heaven to come and alleviate his suffering. In the lower part of the Hinnom Valley and Kidron Valley, the city dumped its waste and burned its trash. oh my. Its a blank slate until this commentary pops up. Who in their right mind would want to cross over? Maybe you guys think you are as smart as our all knowing all seeing creator. Gender matters: women and religion, 1960-2000, Barbara Brown Zikmund. According to Chan and Sprinkle "The first reference we have to the Hinnom Valley, or Gehenna, as a town dump is made by a rabbi named David Kimhi in a Commentary, which was written in AD 1200." We should also note that there is no archeological evidence of Gehenna as a garbage dump. The "ravine of hinnom" (Gehenna) was the city garbage dump in Jerusalem where the garbage was burned. When they fought, their teeth would make a gnashing sound. One question to ask about the parable of the rich man and Lazarus Why the need for a gulf to keep those in Abraham's bosom from going to the other side where there was torment? It is possible to use a word, like aionian, to make a statement of fact, without being forced to use it as a statement of limitation.". I went to a website and read the list of anathemas directed against his teachings and found out that he goes farther than the final restoration of all of mankind and goes as far as saying the devil would one day be repentant and saved. People also ignore the context of what Jesus is talking about. First, you still seem to think you are in a position to lecture Christ on how to conduct his affairs. The fire never went out. Some scholars claim Gehenna later became a " garbage dump ," where refuse was subsequently burned. What has that got to do with it. "Even when the term "aionian" is applied to God Himself, this does not mean it is describing Him as eternal. During the reign of King Josiah (640-609 B.C. The version I read was that after human sacrifice in the Hinnom valley ceased, it was then used as a rubbish dump. They will long to die, but death will flee from them. You clearly havened thought the whole matter through and would trade in salvation for 20th century sensibilities. Gehenna was a burning trash dump outside Jerusalem. The Myth of the Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna. Almost every major commentary on Matthew that mentions Gehenna also spoke of the garbage dump. It is amazing how many things we take as "established fact" that simply are not true. What does a 2000-year-old garbage dump have to do with us, in modern America? Why is there this belief that there is no redemption? He does not tell us where he got that information from and that is all we hear of it. For this reason, it became the city dump. Isaiah closes his book with these words: Isaiah 66:24 (ESV) And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. Wild animals fought over scraps of food along the edges of the heap. The three layers of Hades were called glooms for good reason; they were realms devoid of emotion, hope, and peace. Students may use the material on this site for school projects without permission. There simply is no evidence to support the idea, but because it seems a reasonable explanation for the origin of the Hinnom Valley as hell, writers and preachers accept and propagate the story. Rev. There is no way shape or form that you can make Jude utter universalist theology. Not necessarily TO those in the fire, possibly TO OTHERS ABOUT THOSE in the fire if they are already in it, they don't need examples. garbage heap, junk heap, junk pile, refuse heap . McBride has more details and the sources in his post. Neither says anything about eternal punishment being only temporary. DIANA is a world leader in natural functional solutions for the food, pet food, nutraceuticals, aquaculture and cosmetics industries, and technology leader in plant cell culture, dedicated to the production of active ingredients for food, cosmetics and health. It was an interesting article and I am glad that you were not trying to disprove eternal punishment though at least one person wanted to think otherwise. Ezekiel doesn't utter any either and he doesn't even touch on anything linked to "eternal fire". The references to fire in Is 31.9 and Is 33.14 envisioned Yahweh's power as bringing vengeance on Israel's oppressors (Is 33.10 - 12) rather than a fire . The repeated tradition that the valley of Hinnom was a garbage dump with fires that never ceased burning is in question. This article is more additional proof against the doctrine of eternal torment. Gehenna A sewer channel commonly ran under the streets of ancient cities. Who is ignoring the context? The books of Kings and Chronicles tell us that a wealthy family named "Hinnom" owned a garden near Jerusalem which first King Ahaz, and then even more audaciously, King Manasseh turned into a place for burning children as a sacrifice to the god Molech. But just as soon as Josiah died, the Jews returned to Tophet. I've used this illustration many times. But when the burning occured in such a valley, it left "dead bodies" for which the worms feasted on after the fire has destroyed them. [2] The valley is also known by the name Gehinnom ( G-Hnnm, lit. The wonderful promise that is "You lot will experience everlasting happiness while the rest of the world suffers unimaginable torment for eternity"? Though I believe you are talking to the Universalists in this post, there are times when "eternal" doesn't mean a duration of time. But the old Jerusalem had a "dung gate", where the trash was taken out of the city. The Greek word gehenna is found 12 times in our New Testament ScripturesJesus used the term 11 times, and James used it one time. And he mentions those who would go from where he himself was to the other side where the torment was FIRST. Finally, you are also mistaken about time and the eternal life. Seems a little disproportionate to me. But that doesn't meant that only the "devil gets saved in the end" was condemned. And as far as Rabbi Kimhi goes, note that even he stated the alleged dump of Gehenna became an analogy for the judgment of the wicked, which demonstrates that even the first writer to make this connection saw it to be an analogy for the place that the wicked will be judged. ", Ezekiel 16:55 "And your sisters, Sodom with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, will return to what they were before; and you and your daughters will return to what you were before.". Fears becalmed. Jesus actually talked of kolasis aionian temporary correction/discipline. Rubbish, bones, decaying. Ezekiel indeed prophesies that Sodom, Samaria and Juda would return to their former state. We should rather shun them than let them damage our salvation. It is also very instructive to study the writings of the early church fathers and church history to see how prevalent a belief universal salvation was, and then compare the conditions that surrounded the second council at Constantinople where they decided that a confession of belief in an eternal hell was one of the conditions for being accepted into "the church". You see, there is a difference between "material" heresy and "formal" heresy the former is error in contents, which might as well be unwitting, the latter is the obstinate insistance on such an error. When a fire is not quenched it burns UNTIL IT RUNS OUT OF FUEL. Well before the time of Jesus, the valley was also used as a refuse heap. It is translated "hell" every time. You first have to make the text fit your interpretation. I cannot vouch for Jerome, his meaning or his wording. If you look at the political and religious power struggles going on at Constantinople it is apparent that the doctrine of eternal hell was used to scare people and get them to submit to those who had control of the church, so they could hold their kingdom together. And of course, the worm did not die there, meaning that there were always new maggots going through their life-cycles, feeding on the trash. What church are you talking about? Mark 9:45. if you use the NIV version of the Bible the words "and shut out" are not in the Greek, rather just the preposition "from"). We can trace the develope a transition of the place of the dead from a pit to a water filled pit and then to similar with fire. http://www.afterlife.co.nz/2012/featured-article/tracing-the-road-to-gehenna/ An article looking at Gehenna in the OT and why Jesus may have chosen to use this word. The thing is, that as the "aion" during which the punishment takes place is coming to an end,DEATH WILL BE SWALLOWED UP BY LIFE! But you are faking compassion you don't want the damned to suffer but have no problem with seeing them dead. must be explained away if you want to cling to a doctrine of eternal torture. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire. But this doesn't give you the right to twist his words. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. "The God of the Eons" is a statement of fact, not of limitation. You would think this would have been addressed early on if the case was clear cut and universal salvation was heresy. Rather, god gives the gift of immortality to the saved only per apostle Paul. Their meaning cannot be derived from the "object" (which means you assumption that salvation can be eternal but punishment cannot) but from the context and the context in the passage referred above is a parallel structure. There are a lot of things we need to be saved from at this point, but there will come a point when there will be nothing we need to be saved from. You are also disrespectful towards the damned it is one thing, as God does, to give them their just deserts, but quite another to simply blot them out from existence and pretend everything's fine. In Jesus' day, it was once again the city's garbage dump, where a fire was always burning to consume anything thrown on the pile ( Mark 9:43-48 ). If all men could be saved, it would be great, but we are long past this (let alone all creatures). Hell, detail in Pieter Bruegel the Elder's Dull Griet, 1561 . Lambs? However, the word simply means the Valley (heb. It is retributive and vindictive. Uhh no. PS. I haven't memorised all the conciliar canons and anathemata but I think neither have you. He is not being literal here, He is speaking about cutting off or getting rid of something of the carnal man. Salvation does not have to be eternal. In the other dozen or so, to get the idea of "eternal" you have to read it into the words "aion" and "aionian". Nice work. If that seems unfair in your eyes, so be it . In v.15-16 it seems pretty clear the context of this passage is a universal judgment on all flesh. Jesus used this term. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Marcos you're welcome to reject the doctrine of eternal torment, but don't pretend that this blogpost or the Bible gives any support to your view. Jude is not using Sodom and Gommorah as examples of those who WILL be punished, the "suffering of eternal fire" in that verse is in the PRESENT TENSE. Jude says Sodom and Gomorrah undergo vengeance in "eternal fire", and Ezekiel says that Sodom and her daughters will one day be restored to their former estate. The quotation begins in verse 22. Click the card to flip "For thus says the Lord God: I will deal with you as you have done, who despised the oath by breaking the covenant.". to fully consume all things dumped there. It is one of a number of alignment-based Outer Planes that form part of the standard Dungeons & Dragons ( D&D ) cosmology, used in the Planescape , Greyhawk , and some editions of . "Gehenna" was a very concrete location in Jesus' time. It differs from the neutral-leaning Sheol as Gehenna was considered a type of waiting room; the longest one can be there is 11 or 12 months with few exceptions. , it would be great, but we are not all doomed as so many.. City dump leave me with hope and joy, is this not the work of Eons! Eternity and beyond '' ) in his commantary on Collosians devil would one day be repentant and.... Regarding individuals, councils excommunicated those that refused to accept a definition reached ( or crimes... 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